Current thread: Mythic forums > General > hmmmm
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| Author | Message |
Dark Realm
3/12/2013 3:25:19 PM | I do believe i have isolated something that has been nagging me about a bit of the game play here....i just looked at greyskulls most recent battle where hes in desperate straights ... and one thing that jumped out at me...is during the most recent phase...about 50 skeletons got over 70 attacks against his druid...that is during 1 combat round.... methinks there should be a limit...and maybe way more chances for hitting each other when 50+ opponents(especially effectively mindless unorganized opponents) attack a single enemy all at once...picture all the weapon types swinging as well.. just my copper peice tossed into the well of knowledge.. |
Legion
3/12/2013 4:03:17 PM | You're not the first to mention this. I've already made some notes about how to handle this. There should indeed be a different set of rules when in a 50-on-1 battle. For starters, I agree no more than say 4 or 6 or 10 enemies should be able to attack you during a 10-second round. Then, the rest should be able to move past/through your square without needing to spend their turn doing so, to engage any other party groups nearby, or go wherever else they might want to go. It should be hard, perhaps impossible, to move out of a square where you are a 1-on-50 underdog as well. Finally, probably most importantly, there should be some kind of grappling rules. It doesn't matter how skillful you are with a sword, if 50 skeletons (or demons or tigers or bandits or whatever) are all hell-bent on slaying you its just a matter of time (and not much time at that) before you end up on the ground getting kicked, stabbed, stunned, and generally piled-on and that is the end of you. I don't care if you are Conan or Aragorn or Bruce Lee or whoever, if you are surrounded by 50 orcs/ghouls/werewolves/whatever on open ground you will not be on your feet 30 seconds later, nor alive in 40. |
Dark Realm
3/12/2013 4:25:36 PM | Agreed... but...yes always a but :)... we can end up getting very detailed here.. unless someone pruposely puts a charcter into a huge enemy group like 30 rattling shambing skeletons..there should be very little chance they can ambush and surround..alot of noise from the rattling armour of that many skeltons...and in Greyskulls case.. 2 groups of 30+ skeletons..almost could use a noise factor..40 bandits in armour ..and for that matter 20 charcters in armour..will probably not sneak up on each other..sooo new skill...scout mode? or hear noise? hide in shadows? expanded larger combat maps where no more then 10 man sized creatures per square?....again i will bring up monster vs monster combats if racial enemy :)...and with noise factors party could hear and try to hurry to see whats happening? :P |
Dark Realm
3/12/2013 4:31:39 PM | other thing is if group is large in either numbers (like 30 skeletons) or just damn huge(like 4 ogres) a group behind them cannot even attack with melee weapons...and even with missle and spells can only fire with much greater chance to hit those in the way.. or even get a 'no target of oppurtunity' and hold fire or even lose a partially cast spell as someone gets in the way.. though for spells alot would depend on type be in a magic missle type spell or a area affect... |
Dark Realm
3/12/2013 4:37:41 PM | i do agree that if it ends up a 50 v 1 the one will have almost no chance to survive or get away.. but in that case i think we need some sort of interaction...options for 'parley' (add in pirates of the caribean voices here) if the solo charcter has been 'subdued' by bandits ie pummeled and stunned and surrounded ...they will ransom him for say 50% of all the characters gold...this of coarse would be rare and could not happen if enemy was totally evil undead or non-inteligent.. |
3/12/2013 9:14:29 PM | Only way one character should be attacked by more then maybe 6 creatures in melee is if you are completely surrounded. Magic and missle weapons are the exception. Might even give exception to fighting rats (or something short) and having pole arms/longer reach weapons swinging over them. Then again, I have always thought groups needed to be limited to begin with. And that is a good question. How big is each square? There are alot of things that can be put into the game that would expand the playability. Things grey has suggested as well as other things, such as smell like a zombie rotting stench. And grey.. enemy vs enemy happens when you summon them :) |
Legion
3/13/2013 8:17:33 AM | For what its worth (not as much, now that I'm adding things more slowly) a sneaking/spotting/hiding/scouting system is on the horizon. Not sure how soon we'll get to the horizon ... but its one of the things this most recent revision is gearing up for.
A square is 10m x 10m and a turn is 10 seconds by the way. I'd love to have a detailed "battle map" with 1m squares where a character took up an entire square (or an ogre 4 squares, or 3 rats per square, etc) and we could really get into a tactical battlefield. That is NOT on the horizon, however, but well beyond it. |
3/13/2013 10:09:48 AM | May not wanna try the one creature per meter square. starts opening up the arguements for how much space is required for things, like an 8 foot spear, or 6 foot 2handed sword. Maces and such are even more problematic, since they need space to be swung. Now the tactical battle would be nice to see. That would really limit the amount of monsters that can strike a character at once. Also allow better protection for some characters. This could open up more spells as well. Clairvoyance for example could tell you whats in the area around you. Clairaudience is for sound, incase a few didnt know. |
WarWorld
3/14/2013 5:28:12 AM | Just a suggestion Legion, you may be able to implement "noise"large groups make by using derivative of detect monster spell? Basically you give monsters a noise factor which gets mulitplied by number of monsters in group. Party has a permanent detect monsters spell up but instead of auto detection of all monsters it looks for a noice level above a certain amount. This level impacted by char stats and skills.
only issue I have, since I don't have large parties I know this well, adventuring parties will always be outnumbered at some point and as things stand per above they are going to get wiped out. |
3/14/2013 9:19:14 AM | Just a warning. You might think the skeletons/restless bones are bad now, but they should be almost silent when moving. Just wait until you come around a corner and the spell didnt detect them. Now some creatures you should be able to hear without a spell. The characters being outnumbered. As it was suggested here, there should only be a max number of creatures that can attack one character at a time. Weapons will have a big factor on how many can swing. A wall of spears, a thrusting weapon, can be tightly packed, while a mornstar, spiked ball on the end of a chain, is gonna require room to attack. Reality is not gonna make the game any more fun, so I can see leaving out the space concerns. |
Dark Realm
3/14/2013 4:56:33 PM | good points...i like silvers idea for a general detect monsters(noise) and i agree things could get extremly complicated with weapons size swing range arc ..wed give legion a anuerism trying to code it :)...though i like the idea of 20 4'dwarf fighters up front with 20 5' elf archers behind them firing arrows and another 20 6' human archers behind them :)... |
Dark Realm
3/14/2013 5:03:35 PM | limiting group sizes per square to 10 man sized creatures... could create some serious bottlenecks and make for some meat grinder type hack and slash which would take away from the manuvering fun..but could also open up some passages making some 2 squares wide with small more compact passages 1 square..this could mean more use of wall spells to limit attacker groups..especially if theres now 5 groups of 10 bandits each.. some of which may try nearby passages to get behind charcters.. if they smart enough.. |
Dark Realm
3/14/2013 5:10:50 PM | as for space required for weapons and group limits.. though it is probably to simplistic.. based on a 10 man sized creatures per square... assign a space number of say 30...each weapon uses its speed modifier for space required.. best initive goes first unitl weapon spaces used up.. then any remaining could either lose there action/attack with to hit penalty/attack with damage penalty/attack with higher then normal chance to hit ally... so in the case of all spearmen they would all get to attack normally....a group of twohanded swordsmen only a few would attack fully while some would just thrust lightly with swords while others wouldnt get to attack at all... |
3/14/2013 10:47:10 PM | Yeah, front row with shields and daggers. Just hold the monsters in place while we arrow and spell them to death. Oh wait, thats what they are doing to us... run! now with this idea, I guess he is gearing up for clan world excursions, where the hordes will hit you from all sides. So I would suggest watching all the ideas you give legion. Problem with having just a little over 3 feet per person is it would be really tight. A person in plate with a shield is gonna take up more then 3 feet of space, and that isnt including weapon. Well for those that can actually afford plate. Though it would be funny seeing a giant swing a tree that was ripped from the ground at the front line. Clear them all out with one shot |
Dark Realm
3/15/2013 4:27:54 PM | oh sure...give him ideas for giants swinging trees...next you will tell him they will play pool with trees down corridors shooting beholders at the party :)
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3/15/2013 11:28:13 PM | I thought they used beholders like ninja stars. And I thought they bowled more then shot pool. Wow. Been a while since I got stuck being one of their pawns in a chest game. Couldnt figure out where queens knight 7 was. |
Dark Realm
3/19/2013 9:46:05 AM | actually with the chess reference im almost picturing a chess board for the combat :) |
WarWorld
3/19/2013 11:04:00 AM | Night riders,
Skeletons make lots of noise if they have equipment. |
3/20/2013 9:32:47 AM | well what would a club be to a giant? Then again, how much space would a giant with a tree take? How many people could attack it as well? Now the problem to players comes when creatures immune to an attack form, like a dragon should be immune to the breath weapon it has, firing it by other dragons of its type. No concern for harming the others. Also brings up something about walls. I know its programmed to just block access but shouldnt you be able to entomb creatures with it? Have it fall on those below or behind it by slanting it over them? |